Charles - I am a bit confused. Is it the lack of real discussion that you are tired of or are you tired of the opinions expressed in the video that you posted?
I thought the video was well done and something that more Americans need to see and think about before shouting down whoever expresses an opinion with which they do not agree. Thanks for sharing it.
Rod, it is people who feel that they can be rude to people who disagree with them about health care related issues, that I am tired of, not the reporter, or the handicapped woman, both of whom were civil about their views.
I'm with Charles here. The whole, quite fake expression of 'democracy' at these townhall meetings is exemplified by those who will not let people express POVs contrary to their own. There have been civil discussions about this complex issue but calling people "Nazis" is simply fighting words in my book and has nothing to do with free speech...in fact it ends free speech.
We need a *discussion* on health care, not this nonsense that passed for it under the guise of the psycho 'tea party' turkies...
David and Charles - Agreed. Shouting someone down or interrupting their discussion is not debate. Having been to public meetings, however, I can understand the reasons why they normally apply a reasonable time limit on any one speaker.
These so called town hall events are getting out of hand. Earlier in the week a man who opposes health care reform got into a fight with a prohealth care demonstrator in Thousand Oaks Ca and had part of his finger bitten off. Maybe I would have sympathy for this man if it wasn't for the fact, which he admitted, that he threw two punches at the proreform guy and the second punch landed in the man's mouth. To me it seems like the biter has a good case of self defense because the bitee should not have had his finger in the other man's mouth.
You can read more about this event by clicking on the link below.
Rob, as a survivor of the cold war, I find your communism comment to be absurd. Almost every civilized country in the world, has a national health care plan. The United States has the most expensive health care system in the world, but Americans are neither as healthy nor as long lived as people in many countries with national health systems. You right wingers need to get a grip on reality. You need to stop screaming at people who you disagree with. And you need to sytop your silly name calling.
There is no excuse for rude and inconsiderate behavior from either side of the debate. Elected representatives ought to respect the desire of their constituents to voice their support for, or opposition to, pending legislation.
It is not surprising that many people are reacting strongly to this issue, as they have been called "evil mongers", "un-American", "mobsters" - and that's by the political class!
Citizens are rightly concerned about the attempt to pass such sweeping legislation by Aug 1. Heck, more time was taken deciding on the Obama's pet dog.
We have an example of national health care in the USA - it's the Indian Health Service - and it is exhibit A of inefficiency, bureaucracy and malaise. I have personal experience with the IHS as an intern in 1984 at Chinle, AZ with the Navajo nation.
Wouldn't it make sense to consult with MOC's who actually provide health care services? Rep. Tom Price, Sens. Tom Coburn and Tom Barrasso are practicing physicians and have submitted ideas based on their experience. Rep. Paul Ryan, John Shadegg, Pete Hoekstra and others have presented ideas that would expand choice, portability, limit frivolous lawsuits and cut fraud and waste. Those ideas have been summarily rejected by the majority party.
Certainly, there is the need to insure the chronically uninsurable, but do we need to overturn what 85% of Americans approve of to cover that 5%?
There is a better way to achieve the desired goal. It is worth taking the time to consider all options.
We also have such examples as the Veterans Administration, and Medicare. I heard horror stories about the VA back when I was on active duty, and that was about thirty years ago. It hasn't gotten any better.
If the political class wants me to trust them with my health, they can start earning it by making Medicare, VA, and BIA health care work. Then we'll talk.
Charles - I am a bit confused. Is it the lack of real discussion that you are tired of or are you tired of the opinions expressed in the video that you posted?
ReplyDeleteI thought the video was well done and something that more Americans need to see and think about before shouting down whoever expresses an opinion with which they do not agree. Thanks for sharing it.
Rod, it is people who feel that they can be rude to people who disagree with them about health care related issues, that I am tired of, not the reporter, or the handicapped woman, both of whom were civil about their views.
ReplyDeleteI'm with Charles here. The whole, quite fake expression of 'democracy' at these townhall meetings is exemplified by those who will not let people express POVs contrary to their own. There have been civil discussions about this complex issue but calling people "Nazis" is simply fighting words in my book and has nothing to do with free speech...in fact it ends free speech.
ReplyDeleteWe need a *discussion* on health care, not this nonsense that passed for it under the guise of the psycho 'tea party' turkies...
David
David and Charles - Agreed. Shouting someone down or interrupting their discussion is not debate. Having been to public meetings, however, I can understand the reasons why they normally apply a reasonable time limit on any one speaker.
ReplyDeleteThese so called town hall events are getting out of hand. Earlier in the week a man who opposes health care reform got into a fight with a prohealth care demonstrator in Thousand Oaks Ca and had part of his finger bitten off. Maybe I would have sympathy for this man if it wasn't for the fact, which he admitted, that he threw two punches at the proreform guy and the second punch landed in the man's mouth. To me it seems like the biter has a good case of self defense because the bitee should not have had his finger in the other man's mouth.
ReplyDeleteYou can read more about this event by clicking on the link below.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2009/09/town_hall_talk_mans_fingertip.html
Charles
ReplyDeleteThis is America...don't you know you have the right to express your own opinion, as long as it doesn't disagree with mine?
And don't even mention social program with government intervention, lest I call you a communist...
Rob
Rob, as a survivor of the cold war, I find your communism comment to be absurd. Almost every civilized country in the world, has a national health care plan. The United States has the most expensive health care system in the world, but Americans are neither as healthy nor as long lived as people in many countries with national health systems. You right wingers need to get a grip on reality. You need to stop screaming at people who you disagree with. And you need to sytop your silly name calling.
ReplyDeleteI think Rob was being facetious, not fascistic :).
ReplyDeleteD.
There is no excuse for rude and inconsiderate behavior from either side of the debate. Elected representatives ought to respect the desire of their constituents to voice their support for, or opposition to, pending legislation.
ReplyDeleteIt is not surprising that many people are reacting strongly to this issue, as they have been called "evil mongers", "un-American", "mobsters" - and that's by the political class!
Citizens are rightly concerned about the attempt to pass such sweeping legislation by Aug 1. Heck, more time was taken deciding on the Obama's pet dog.
We have an example of national health care in the USA - it's the Indian Health Service - and it is exhibit A of inefficiency, bureaucracy and malaise. I have personal experience with the IHS as an intern in 1984 at Chinle, AZ with the Navajo nation.
Wouldn't it make sense to consult with MOC's who actually provide health care services? Rep. Tom Price, Sens. Tom Coburn and Tom Barrasso are practicing physicians and have submitted ideas based on their experience. Rep. Paul Ryan, John Shadegg, Pete Hoekstra and others have presented ideas that would expand choice, portability, limit frivolous lawsuits and cut fraud and waste. Those ideas have been summarily rejected by the majority party.
Certainly, there is the need to insure the chronically uninsurable, but do we need to overturn what 85% of Americans approve of to cover that 5%?
There is a better way to achieve the desired goal. It is worth taking the time to consider all options.
Charles
ReplyDeleteSorry you didn't see through my sarcasm, no insult intended. I was indeed being facetious, my apologies!
Rob
Rob, no problejm. Sorry I misunderstood you.
ReplyDeleteWe also have such examples as the Veterans Administration, and Medicare. I heard horror stories about the VA back when I was on active duty, and that was about thirty years ago. It hasn't gotten any better.
ReplyDeleteIf the political class wants me to trust them with my health, they can start earning it by making Medicare, VA, and BIA health care work. Then we'll talk.