tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7597656451205429515.post7723482085413516939..comments2024-02-16T17:52:44.944-06:00Comments on The Nuclear Green Revolution: The Gulf of Maine - Gulf of Money - Perfect Storm of CostsCharles Bartonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01125297013064527425noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7597656451205429515.post-167597465115184162008-12-18T11:35:00.000-06:002008-12-18T11:35:00.000-06:00Robert, if you can justify the added expense a gro...Robert, if you can justify the added expense a ground source heat pump can be significantly better still.<BR/><BR/>A few metres below the ground the temperature is "annualized" by the slow conduction of heat. The annual average temperature is about 7 degrees celcius where I live and winter temperatures pretty much keep in the -20 to 10 degrees celsius range. Lakes are also quite popular sources for heat exchangers; a little colder at around 4 degrees celcius but it's much easier to extract heat from a lake.<BR/><BR/>Given that you take heat from a sufficiently large volume of Earth with a heat exchanger(usually liquid filled plastic coils) a ground source heat pump can get a coefficient of performance of about 4 to 5.<BR/><BR/>If a house is made air-tight and ventilation is done centrally through a heat recovery ventilator, you can reduce heating or cooling requirements arrising from ventilation by over 90% with a wellmade(cellular, not flat plate) counter-current heat exchanger. <BR/><BR/>You can potentially do the same trick with hot gray water(waste water from washing machines, dish washers, shower drains...). What you'd need to do is develop a counter-current heat exchanger that won't easily get clogged with hair, grease etc. and pre-heat incomming cold water before it enters the hot water heating tank. I can't imagine that it would make sense in an existing house because you'd have to do a lot of replumbing to move gray water to a heat exchanger before disposing of it.<BR/><BR/>Here in Sweden we had expensive heating oil, fairly cheap electricity from hydro and nuclear and a very underdeveloped natural gas network(~1% of primary energy). Ground, air and lake heat pumps really took off, as well as district heating for the larger cities with a variety of sources(wood waste, waste heat from industry, waste incineration, giant heat pumps powered by off-peak nuclear and spring surplus hydro, heavy oils, coal, peat...).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7597656451205429515.post-58413972508463521332008-12-16T17:19:00.000-06:002008-12-16T17:19:00.000-06:00Out west, are not most central air conditioning/he...Out west, are not most central air conditioning/heating systems the same thing?<BR/><BR/>I'm rather ignorant of this myself, living 1/2 mile from the Pacific Ocean south of San Francisco...we use neither heat nor air conditioning :)<BR/><BR/>Can you explain in a little more detail this all works?<BR/><BR/>DavidDWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03070034894266417461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7597656451205429515.post-27939451119457251052008-12-16T08:28:00.000-06:002008-12-16T08:28:00.000-06:00Robert, there is an air source heating system manu...Robert, there is an air source heating system manufactured in the United States that is suitable for cold New England and Canadian Winters. Ground source heat pumps are even more efficient, but they are very expensive to repair if there is a problem with the underground loop. Air Source heat pumps are really glorified air conditioners, so the current AC manufacturing, sales and service structure in the United States will allow a rapid transition to Air Source Heat pumps by conversion of existing air conditioners into air source heat pumps. Air source heat pumps still provides air conditioning. Thus there are very considerable practical advantages of air source heating rather than ground source heating in much of the United States. I have more discussion of heat pumps in Nuclear Green.Charles Bartonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01125297013064527425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7597656451205429515.post-17788938023808886562008-12-16T06:17:00.000-06:002008-12-16T06:17:00.000-06:00I Googled "air source heater" and was astonished t...I Googled "air source heater" and was astonished to see that they are nearly all from China.<BR/><BR/>The only price I could find was $456 for a Soleus 11,200 BTU, 1,180 KW unit.<BR/><BR/>Because these units obtain heat by cooling outside air, they produce thermal energy at about 3X the electrical energy consumed. A coal fired power plant produces electrical energy at 1/3 the thermal energy consumed. So the net efficiency is only ~1 if you use coal power. If your electricity comes from an oil powered plant, you'd be better off to burn the oil in your furnace.<BR/><BR/>The air source heat pump is a great way to use nuclear power. Remember the days when the power companies were promoting "electric heat" with resistance heating, consuming 3X the electric power of a heat source pump?Robert Hargraveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06846491141058940965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7597656451205429515.post-20662077680597655582008-12-15T14:47:00.000-06:002008-12-15T14:47:00.000-06:00Wise many use reason to plot the optimum course, b...Wise many use reason to plot the optimum course, but the ordinary man goes to the school of hard knocks. It is best that these big disruptive machines be sited out of sight and out of mind, until it dawns on these people all the problems entailed in their technology. In due course, the sea will recycle them into oblivion very effectively like so many other follies of mankind.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7597656451205429515.post-22698014211716046332008-12-15T10:49:00.000-06:002008-12-15T10:49:00.000-06:00Another one for the DailyKos, CharlesDavidAnother one for the DailyKos, Charles<BR/><BR/>DavidDWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03070034894266417461noreply@blogger.com